Sunday, 09 November 2008
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Stop doing religion wrong, guys, seriously.
Going to an art school, the majority of the students, like me, are agnostic. This is kinda confusing considering the history of art, but I guess creativity only runs in the blood of anarchistic heathens in this day and age. I'm kidding, kinda. but on the subject fo being anarchistic heathens, my friend and I got into a discussion about the innacurate portrayal of agnostics by pretty much everyone.
To be religious, it's assumed that one has to be tied to a religion. This encompasses the foundation of the problem with religion as a whole. The title of a religion is tied strictly to the religion's scripture, and not the ethics, because, for the most part, all religions have almost identical moral codes. So, one has to call themselves a "Christian," "Catholic," or "Muslim," in spite of having the same rules against murder, rape, theft, etc. And naturally, because these religions follow different literature, they have to look down on each other, because being different is just stupid, and you're stupid for being different (that's the code of all mankind right there, folks).
So, I wear the title of agnostic, because we have to have titles for everything, society would panic without a label and system of identification for everything. Because of this label, it's assumed I disregard everything about all religion. Obviously this is bullshit. I have read the Bible, the Book of Mormon, two books on taoism, a book on budhism, and even a book on Krishna that some monk gave me a few months ago. the last three are incredibly more interesting, since rather than telling incredibly ridiculous stories to prove their points, they discuss philosophy. Granted, these are just a few books on a very select few religions. Either way, though, I realized how dramatically similar they all really are.
So, take away the literature and stories of the respective religious texts, because, true or not, they are only in there to reinforce the morals and ideals that the religion is founded on. They are not important, and not ment to be taken literally in any context as they so often are. Suddenly, religion isn't so bad, and something I can totally get into. I'm still not going to accept whether there is or isn't a God, because I can't prove that. But again, diety isn't important in religion, either, and some don't even have one. I mean, what is a God in a religious sense? Someone who may or may not be there who you pray to, who may or may not do what you ask, which is irrelevant because he or she already has your fate pre-determined, so what the fuck are you praying for, anyway? Oh, also it's someone who you can kill in the name of, and it's automatically justified.
I don't hate religion, I just hate where society has placed the focus. That is, everyone is so caught up in literally interpreting the religious texts that they forget the point of religion. Religion is there to set a unified moral code and to give hope to those who need it. Instead, it's being used to give hate an excuse. I know this isn't any sort of new revelation, that the religious are misusing their religion, that's been done since before history. The problem that I've come to realize, though, is that while everything else in society advances, religion doesn't, and in my mind the single-most visible cause of this is the labelling and segregation of religions. But then, what do I know, I'm a anarchistic heathen.
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Comments (196)
I like your post. Have a dollar.
I'm going to be different here. I'm a Christian, and I do not approve this message. It seems like everyone else has been a bit too quick to agree.
"...for the most part, all religions have
almost identical moral codes." That's a pretty bold statement. Just how much do you know about all religions? Check out this handy-dandy chart. It doesn't say anything specifically about moral codes, but the "life's purpose" column highlights some pretty big differences between religions' core beliefs.
"So, take away the literature and stories of the respective religious
texts, because, true or not, they are only in there to reinforce the
morals and ideals that the religion is founded on. They are not
important..." I won't speak for other religions, because I don't know their scriptures so well, but in the case of Christianity scripture is far more than ridiculous stories or unnecessary support for a moral code. The Bible is arguably, if not certainly, the most influential book of all time. The misinterpretation and abuse of the truth contained in the Bible has led to the destruction of countless lives. Faith in the truth contained in the Bible has led to and will continue to lead to the salvation of countless lives. I'm sure that scriptures of many other religions have (had) huge effects on their respective societies, as well.
The popular thing to say these days is that all religions are basically the same. I get kind of tired of hearing it and seeing people fall in line with the idea so easily. To say that the religions around the world share many similarities would be accurate, but the foundation of each religion is pretty unique from what I have seen, as
are the effects that each religion has on society. There are enough
differences in morals and critical beliefs to choke a donkey. A really
big one.
Your main point seems to be that "the labelling and segregation of religions" is the cause of all our religion-related woes. Are you really so bothered by the fact that people have different
beliefs and identify those beliefs through language? That's just
unreasonable. The problems that arise from religion are rooted in 1) people's selfish manipulation of others' faiths and 2) people being too stubborn to question their own beliefs and disrepecting others'. That's pretty obvious, isn't it?
I suspect the reasons you raise are the differences between religionis used as a social tool by competing groups. In every case, an existing dogma serves to unite its followers and, once united, creates a sense of tribalism that naturally excludes other tribes no matter how similar their dogma may be.
This creates the interesting issue of people reading a text see that they ought to treat others with compassion, and they see "treat others like me with compassion".
Most religions will decry murder, theft, and will proscribe social norms as soon as they reach a level of social power, because its in their best interests the society move smoothly. The more cosmopolitan the society, the more those rights per the religion are allowed to extend to people not of the religion.
Socially, I mean, as opposed to what the religion actually states. Actual social rules laid down by a religion often have little to do with the stated religious cosmology anyhow. I drop this here less to lecture, but more to see what you've got to say about it, since I know you've probably considered it, too.
@the_greatest_pip - "The popular thing to say these days is that all religions are basically the same."
Because they all serve the same purpose, and it isn't salvation.
I always thought the "pre-determined fate" was BS. After all, determined could mean that the deity KNOWS what's going to happen, but not necessarily DECIDED what will happen. If God decided what will happen, what's the point of living?
I think the main problem with religion is that people (mainly the Christians) feel that they must push their beliefs on other people. That's when things get messy.
I shouldnt be eating babies then right?
I don't care what you believe, as long as you extend the same courtesy to me. There are a lot of folks out there on both sides who can't quite grasp this concept...
Agnostic is pretty much the Label I wear these days. How can we know? We can't. So (shrug) I guess we find out later ...
I think the problem lies in the difference between religion and spirituality. These are not the same things at all. Religion is a system of rules for living according to that particular philosophy. Spirituality is the relationship you have with either your personal deity, or whatever you define as important to your spirit. A person can be very religious without being spiritual at all, and vice versa.
The problem that I see with "modern religion" is that it has turned more into a bureaucracy than a spiritual home and place of learning. It is so caught up in the rules, that it forgets why those rules were made when they were. They forget that maybe some of the rules that were important during the Bronze Age are maybe not so important now. Guilt has replaced joy. Duty has replaced generosity. Dogma has replaced the living lessons.
Great post, Rob. I hope it gets people thinking, in a positive way.
From one agnostic to another, Thank You. :)
To answer your question on prayer there are several reasons to pray: because we're told to, because it's an acknowledgement of something bigger than ourselves and our need to be submissive to God, because God is relational, and I could go on.
I don't particularly find the phrase "taken literally" appealing because there are varying degrees. Example, there are some sects who find a certain version of their text to be holy, like the KJV only people and certain groups in Islam who propose that the Koran must be read only in its original language. Then there are those who find religious texts, like the Bible for me, to be the word of God. That I take literally.
I find Taoism interesting. I think the Tao and the Christ are very similar on the philosophical level in that both He and the ideal of taoism are unattainable, yet possible.
The sad part of this post is most religious folk won't see us, agnostics that is, any different. Their view of us will incessantly be, we're either with them or against them. It's sad that religion, which is supposed to be a tool for peace, unity and love, is used to divide the different peoples of our world.
But nice post man.
i love your last paragraph *but i can never explain this to my mom or she'll think i'm part of the devil* LOLS -_-
@DrugInducedDuck - Your reviews of yourself are so deep and unbiased!
Totally on the mark though.
I have to agree and disagree. Personally, I am a Christian. However, I believe that no one religion is right... that is, I don't believe my religion is 100% right any more than any other is. I believe there are different rules guidelines and paths to follow because there are so many of us who are different. So, while I may be a Christian, I don't look down on other religions, and actually I don't attend any one denomination of church. I worship God my own way and follow His path as He speaks it to me.
However, God is central to my belief. Without God, there would be no belief. Only, as you say, guidelines of how to possibly be a better person. I believe God takes many forms and comes to us in many ways, but I can not waiver in my faith that God is real. I recently wrote a post about why I don't care if God is a lie. And I don't. Because I know that he's real, and even if He wasn't.. I would never know.
I think a big problem with religion lies in the fact that, while many claim to be Christian or Catholic, or any other number of religions, they don't actually practice. They simply use it as a tool to do what they like and condemn others. To sit on their high horse, looking down at the world. The problem isn't the religion, the problem isn't God, the problem is people who live a lie.
This post is epic win.
the last paragraph reminds me of selma heyak's conversation/speach on religion in dogma. i approve and i guess she'd approve, too. :D
well, at least we know kevin smith would, and that's really all that matters.
I have to admit I began reading your entry with great hesitation and planned to just skim the first few sentences.
Why? Because I expected to find the same "yada yada yada blasplee blasplee" that I hear so much of from those who proffess to be Christian but carry on as if they are the apple of Gods eye.
In my own personal experience I attended corporate worship for years only to find some of my greatest pain was brought about at the hands of those "worshipping" with me.
For the past 4+ years I have discovered that my faith is not a Relion but rather a personal journey of discovery and acceptance.
Thank you so much for saying what so many of us struggled to find the words to.
I enjoy your sight
you know, I tried to explain to my dad once how most religions tend to follow the same codes and that the only difference is how they named their god and he went ballistic.
To me, almost every religion seems to say "Be good, do good things, and you'll go to good places."
But I'll be totally honest, and I know I'm most likely in the wrong here, but I hate religion. I think its used too often as an excuse for peoples actions and for the start of wars and discrimination. I think it's caused too many problems and I wish it was never made up. But then people hear me say that (which I almost never do) and get offended. Honestly, I rarely open my mouth because I don't wanna be offensive.
OK I'm kinda just ranting now.
@DrugInducedDuck - hey..i am a Mormon.. but yes parts of the book are funny. good post by the way. i alwaays enjoy reading Your posts.
@another_rebel_without_a_cause - that is very true. Joesph Smith said God told Him..tea and coffee were harmful.
i can respect how you have formulated your conclusion. i've tried many religions and belief systems in the past myself. and yes, similiar moral codes in a lot of respects, but not all. It's not the same God. b/c the same God of Jesus would not deny His own son and make him into only a teacher as Islam teaches. He would be contradicting Himself and the scriptures. And, I agree that it probably comes across as arrogance to claim that Christ is the only way, but please don't mistake thinking something is true and right as meaning that other people aren't entitled to their own beliefs and respect for holding their beliefs. Look, even within the scientific community there are disagreements; studies are constantly being disproven and reworked...but that's not to say that those who are wrong or who have other theories or hypothesis are lesser than the ones with the currently accepted version. Nor, are those in the majority in the scientific (insert religious communities as well) communities always correct, as history has shown repeatedly in specific areas of study.
not that it will change your view (because it is not intended to), but just so you know, the whole Bible isn't meant to be read literally. it calls for discernment; because some parts are figurative, metaphoric, prophetic, etc. there are exaggerated stories and illustrations used to teach, and then there are brutally horrific true stories, rough genealogies, how-to-manuals, laws, guidelines, history, and some psalms/songs/poetry. so it depends on what you are reading and within what context. you always have to look at who the audience was/is at the time and within what cultural context. even that isn't always foolproof. however, with the holy spirit, any child or man should be able to discern it and come away with something inspirational and life-enhancing.
oh..forgot to add..there are also wonderful love stories, encouraging miracles of healing/deliverance/freedom from slavery/divine guidance and provision, climactic battles, heroes, rescue missions, health advice, even sexual advice. you can't get better than that in one book..i never tire of reading it.
@the_greatest_pip - That chart doesn't tell me anything besides confirming what I had already said. The Life's Purposes for every religion is a focus on becoming a better person as an end result. Anyway, to be arguing that religions are different, but then to say that you don't know much about other religions is kinda contradictory and kills any chance for a valid point you may have had. Yes, the labelling and segragation of religions is a problem, because, hell, as you even pointed out, people manipulate other religions for their own selfish ideas. What I'm saying is if people just acknowledged that a person is religious and therefore assume they are striving to become a better person, and not go into details of what they follow, there'd be quite a bit less hate and violence.
The point of Religion is to pacify the masses and to prevent an uprising.
Period.
Placing any other definition on it is missing the point.
You are right about the presence of god being irrelevant in a religion though.
It had it's regulatory purposes back when laws meant nothing.
-David
@ViscountDuVitriol - Now that's not fair. Religion is greater than just that. I won't argue that that's not what it's used for, because it damn well is. However, religion has done a lot of great things for people on an individual scale. It gives hope to people who have none. I've seen religion turn people's lives completely around for the better while they were on a downward spiral to nothing.